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WEEHAWKEN PLANNING BOARD HEARING
DECEMBER
9, 1999
FULL TRANSCRIPT
PAGES
167 TO 211 (end)

Witne
ss Laura Staines and Michael Giardino

Professional Planner & Architect
Direct Testimony

Cross-Examination by the Planning Board

Below is the transcript from the Weehawken Planning Board Hearing on December 9th, 1999.  This html document follows the format of the official transcript. The transcript format has 25 lines per page. Each page is numbered. Because the transcript is so long, the file has been broken down into 4 different web pages.

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167
1 MR. GOULD: Estimate.
2 THE WITNESS: I am sorry.
3 The estimate of our building height
4 is based on our experience as architects
5 and planners. We build buildings.
6 MR. ROSAS: You made already the
7 estimate?
8 THE WITNESS: We made the
9 estimates. Those are the numbers in the
10 gray here. That's the estimate of the
11 building height of these locations in gray,
12 and because we wanted to produce a new
13 study that was conservative, we took that
14 number and said, okay, we are going to go a
15 little bit higher than that.
16 In other words, we are going to say
17 we are blocking more water than the actual
18 building schematic would block, and that's
19 the number in blue here. That's what we
20 used to generate the open water study.
21 That's why there are three numbers on
22 there.
23 MR. ROSAS: All right.
24 Q Do you have anything else as regards
25 height?
Staines - Redirect - Kienz
168
1 A No, I don't.
2 MR. KIENZ: Laura, I would like
3 to turn your attention now to "Common Open
4 Space," which is contained on Page 2386 of
5 the ordinance, Subsection i.
6 L A U R A C . S T A I N E S, previously sworn.
7 MR. SEGRETO: What page?
8 MR. KIENZ: 2386, Mr. Segreto.
9 Q This also refers you to -- back, I
10 believe, to Page 2378 of the ordinance.
11 Could you describe the common open space
12 that we are proposing?
13 A Would you repeat that, please.
14 Q We are dealing with common open
15 space, subsection --
16 A I have the page, 2386.
17 Q 2386.
18 A Correct.
19 Q Have you done a common open space
20 plan for the site?
21 A Yes. We have a site plan that
22 represents the location of the various elements
23 that comprise the common open space.
24 MR. KIENZ: Please put the plate
25 up.
Staines - Redirect - Kienz
169
1 MR. WEIR: I need a plate number
2 from the other binder. I only have one
3 binder over here.
4 THE WITNESS: Steve --
5 MR. WEIR: Plate 267.
6 Q Okay. Laura, would you please
7 describe this plate.
8 A Yes. This plate locates by color
9 the various elements of both the common open space
10 and the -- as well as the provision of the Hudson
11 River waterfront walkway, and this is evidence to
12 point our compliance with the provision of the
13 common open space requirement.
14 If you would like, I will go through a
15 description of the acreage allocated.
16 Q Would you please.
17 A Certainly.
18 Actually, I will refer to that one section
19 that you pointed out.
20 It's Page 2378.
21 Q Right.
22 A And it relates to the minimum- and
23 maximum-use areas specifically as it relates to
24 common open space.
25 Q That's in Section 23-10.4.e for the
Staines - Redirect - Kienz
170
1 record?
2 A Correct.
3 Q On Page 2378.
4 MR. SEGRETO: 278?
5 MR. KIENZ: 2378.
6 THE WITNESS: South of King's Bluff
7 dividing line requirement are not
8 applicable to this PD application.
9 North of the King's Bluff dividing
10 line there is a requirement to provide a
11 minimum of 30 percent of the developed land
12 area as open space.
13 A simple mathematical equation
14 allows us to conclude that over 92.4 acres
15 of development area 30 percent will require
16 a minimum of 27.72 acres to be provided as
17 common open space.
18 MR. WEIR: Plate 223.
19 THE WITNESS: The actual provision
20 of common open space is in excess of that
21 by at least four acres. We have provided
22 32.16 acres for a 34.81 percent of the
23 overall development area.
24 Common open space is also provided
25 in compliance with the order of priority of
Staines - Redirect - Kienz
171
1 lands that are actually owned by the
2 applicant. They rank in order as
3 preservation of the Palisades Cliffs and
4 the Palisades Preservation area, which are
5 approximately 16.63 acres in size.
6 If we can go back to the site plan,
7 Steve.
8 I will point out those locations.
9 MR. WEIR: Plate 287 -- 267.
10 THE WITNESS: We have the area west
11 of the Conrail right-of-way defined by the
12 westerly boundary of the PD zone that
13 represents the cliff of the Palisades, or
14 the Palisades Preservation area.
15 In addition, the provision of the
16 6.08-acre waterfront park, the balance of
17 the open space being in a variety of
18 categories that is prescribed in the
19 ordinance as combinations of passive open
20 space, passive open space of greater than
21 or less than 5,000 square feet and various
22 defined designed parameters, they all are
23 provided in varying proportions, but the
24 entirety of common open space yields 32.16
25 acres.
Staines - Redirect - Kienz
172
1 Q And is that meeting the requirement
2 of developed open space which is set forth on Page
3 2390 of the ordinance?
4 A Actually, that's a completely
5 separate qualification -- I am sorry -- repeat the
6 page again.
7 Q 2390 -- I am sorry -- you are on
8 2388
9 MR. WEIR: Plate 223.
10 Q Laura, you just summarized all of
11 the open space. Correct?
12 A It's -- I beg your pardon?
13 Q You just summarized the Palisades
14 open spaces.
15 The ultimate conclusion is we have to meet
16 developed open space requirements as set forth on
17 Page 2390. Is that correct?
18 A Yes. As I pointed out, that was, in
19 addition, not included in the open space
20 calculations, although there are some elements
21 that may be included in those calculations.
22 Developed open space is related to the overall
23 square footage of FAR to which I testified
24 earlier.
25 We have a proposal that includes -- let me
Staines - Redirect - Kienz
173
1 think -- here we are -- 3,827,840 square feet of
2 developed area. This is the total floor area of
3 all the combined uses, inclusive of the
4 office/residential/retail, et cetera.
5 The only use that has not been included
6 within that square footage is the proposed ferry
7 terminal. At the time that this was calculated
8 the size of the ferry terminal was not known.
9 Q What difference would the ferry
10 terminal inclusion have on that number?
11 A Really deminimous, approximately
12 39,000 square feet in size, the ferry terminal.
13 The ordinance allows us to modify our
14 square-footage size by as much as five percent
15 without requiring any amendment to the site plan
16 approval.
17 Q In addition to approximately 40,000
18 square feet, is that even going to approach that
19 five percent?
20 A Not at all. It's a very deminimous
21 modification to the floor area, and since these
22 are conceptual -- since these square footages are
23 conceptual at this point, the final square
24 footages will, in fact, be defined at the time of
25 site plan approval for each individual use.
Staines - Redirect - Kienz
174
1 Q Let's just go through the difference
2 between required and proposed so everybody is
3 clear on what is provided.
4 A Are you referring to the common open
5 space or developed?
6 Q Both.
7 A The total common open space. We
8 have a proposed developed area, actual developed
9 area of 92.4 acres. The minimum acerage required
10 to even plan or submit a PD application is 40
11 acres, so, therefore, we comply.
12 We are providing a built area, square
13 footage of use on the site, exclusive of the ferry
14 terminal and the parking structures, of 3,827,840
15 square feet, and I will come back to that
16 reference again in a moment.
17 The total common open space must be a
18 minimum of 30 percent of the developed area, 30
19 percent of our 2.4 acres. That mathematical
20 formula yields a minimum yield of 27.72 acres of
21 common open space. We provide 32.16 acres for a
22 total of 34.81 percent.
23 Going to total developed open space, we
24 utilize the floor area, to which I referred
25 earlier, for every 200 square feet of floor area
Staines - Redirect - Kienz
175
1 constructed, 25 square feet must be provided as
2 open space on the site.
3 Simple mathematics, that number, the
4 3.8-million-square-foot number is divided by 200,
5 then multiplied again by 25 square feet, and that
6 tells you the amount of acreage of developed open
7 space that must be provided on-site.
8 And in this particular case the
9 mathematical formula deals 10.98 acres. We have
10 provided well in excess of that, nearly double
11 that amount.
12 20.56 acres, a portion of that, of course,
13 is the provision of the waterfront park. The
14 developed open space is a large portion. We also
15 have quality passive open space and private or
16 semi-private.
17 I want to make one distinction here. The
18 passive open space has another influence attached
19 to it. It must not be more than 20 percent of the
20 total developed open space provided. We have, in
21 fact, only included point-six-two acres of passive
22 open space in our entire calculation. We would
23 have been allowed to locate 2.2 acres of passive
24 open space, which may, in fact, be just green
25 areas left in their natural state and not
Staines - Redirect - Kienz
176
1 developed for active recreational use.
2 Q Laura, how about discussing
3 dedicated developable open space, which is set
4 forth on Page 2391 of the ordinance.
5 A Yes. The dedicated developed open
6 space --
7 THE WITNESS: Steve, can you go
8 back to the site plan, please.
9 MR. WEIR: Plate 267.
10 THE WITNESS: The dedicated
11 developed open space refers to the area
12 that we have been commonly calling the
13 waterfront park of 6.08 acres, and that, in
14 fact, will be dedicated to the township for
15 public use.
16 I do want to make one other
17 qualifying statement, so that it is
18 absolutely clear to the members of the
19 board, that the water front roadway, which
20 I testified to earlier, in excess of 7,000
21 lineal feet with -- throughout the site and
22 is at a width -- it's provided at a width
23 of 30 feet, with the minor exception of the
24 location of the banana building, is not
25 included in any open space calculation, so
Staines - Redirect - Kienz
177
1 we have provided considerably more public,
2 publically-available space in addition to
3 the open space requirements of the
4 ordinance.
5 MR. KIENZ: Okay. Let's just go
6 back to that plate with the chart on it,
7 Steve.
8 MR. WEIR: Plate 223.
9 Q So the conclusion is that we are how
10 many acres over the required total developable
11 open space?
12 A The developed open space requirement
13 is just shy of 11 acres, 10.98 acres. We have
14 provided 20.56 acres, for an increase of 9.05
15 acres over what's required.
16 Q When you add these numbers together
17 as to how much we are exceeding the ordinance,
18 approximately how much over the ordinance do you
19 come out with?
20 A The incremental increase -- the
21 common open space is 4.4 acres. The incremental
22 increase of the total developed open space is
23 9.058 acres.
24 Q That's approximately 14 acres. Is
25 that correct?
Staines - Redirect - Kienz
178
1 A Well, I would caution you against
2 adding both those numbers. They are two separate
3 catagories, and, as you can see, the waterfront
4 park is -- qualifies as both, so I would be very
5 cautious about adding those together, but, in
6 effect, I would prefer to state we provided nearly
7 twice as much developed open space as the
8 ordinance requires and fully five percent more --
9 nearly five acres more -- four-and-a-half acres
10 more of the common open space.
11 Q Okay. Anything else on open space?
12 A No.
13 Q Let's turn to the parking.
14 A Yes.
15 MR. WEIR: Plate 195.
16 MR. GOULD: Continue, please.
17 Q Please indicate for the board how
18 your proposal is to comply with the parking
19 requirements in the ordinance.
20 A Very good question.
21 Because of the nature of the mixed-use
22 community, we -- and also the fact that we are
23 availing ourselves of the proximity and the
24 integration of the intermodal transportation
25 elements, we have utilized the PD element of the
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179
1 parking regulations to provide one space per
2 residential unit as prescribed in the PD zone, one
3 space for 1,000 square feet of office use.
4 The locations of those parking elements are
5 within each of the buildings that I will now
6 describe to you.
7 I will start with Building 1. Building 1
8 is an office use which sits on top of a five-story
9 parking structure. The parking structure provides
10 parking not only for that office use, but also
11 valet parking for the adjoining hotel and
12 conference facility.
13 In addition, there is retail along the
14 front face of the building. There is additional
15 parking to accommodate employees and patrons.
16 One further element of Building One, of
17 note to the public in particular, and I apologize
18 for not mentioning it earlier, there are 56 -- 54
19 -- excuse me -- dedicated public parking spaces
20 available for the residents of Weehawken within
21 that parking structure.
22 Building 2 is the hotel conference center
23 complex, and it has approximately 114 parking
24 spaces located within it for select guests. The
25 balance of the parking for both patrons and the
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180
1 guests and/or employees, as I pointed out earlier,
2 will be valeted in Building 1.
3 To give you an approximation of the numbers
4 of parking spaces -- again this is very conceptual
5 -- we realize as we get into the specific site
6 plan approval of each individual building they may
7 vary slightly, but this gives you an order of
8 magnitude.
9 The provision of parking in Building 1 is
10 approximately 1112 parking spaces, and that
11 particular building will have a retail element of
12 the first floor, which will assist in obscuring
13 the impact of the parking on the street screening
14 it from view.
15 The hotel element, I believe I mentioned,
16 contains 114 parking spaces.
17 Proceeding to Buildings 3, 4, 5, Building 3
18 and Building 5 represent the office buildings that
19 sit on top of four and a half, I refer to, as four
20 and a half, the left-hand side, southerly side is
21 four stories, the northerly portion is five
22 stories of parking.
23 That parking structure is provided to
24 support the patrons of the ferry, as well as the
25 individuals who will be patronizing and/or
Staines - Redirect - Kienz
181
1 employed by the retail, and also a portion of the
2 office occupants.
3 It is anticipated that, because of the
4 proximity, in this case it's less than 100 feet
5 from the edge of the ferry to the face of the
6 office structure, that a large number of office
7 employees may avail themselves of the ferry in
8 order to gain access to our community.
9 Proceeding south I have pointed out that
10 Building 7 is a stand-alone office building. Its
11 parking is actually contained in the building
12 immediately south of it, which is a combination
13 mixed-use building having retail on its front
14 face, combinations of stacked town homes and
15 single-story apartment buildings in a multilevel
16 building, and within the westerly portion of the
17 building we tend to refer to it as the hole in the
18 donut.
19 In the case of all the residential
20 buildings in the central section, at least three
21 sides of the building are faced with combinations
22 of retail and/or residential, and a small portion
23 of the north facade is exposed in order to allow
24 for some levels of ventilation, and those will be
25 screened artistically and asthetically to avoid
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182
1 any undue impact from the visibility to the
2 parking structures.
3 Buildings 8 and 9 contain approximately 811
4 parking spaces, and that would provide the parking
5 for Building 7 office building, as well as some
6 residual parking for the balance of Buildings 3
7 and 5 that I referred to earlier, and there will
8 also be identified parking for the residential
9 units within that building structure.
10 Proceeding further into the site, Buildings
11 11 and 13 are designed in a very similar fashion,
12 although their parking will provide substantially
13 -- their parking substantially will provide the
14 parking for the residential units.
15 There is additional parking to accommodate
16 the office and retail in the lower levels. There
17 is also additional parking which will be available
18 to the public on a fee basis, in this case those
19 patrons of the respective businesses within the
20 community, so we have not only provided parking to
21 accommodate the units as prescribed in the
22 ordinance, we actually provided excess, utilizing
23 the formulas that I had referred to previously.
24 The PD zone allows us to take under consideration
25 the proximity and the integration of mass
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183
1 transportation in order to reduce the residential
2 parking standards to one space per residential
3 unit.
4 This also, by the way, is in complete
5 compliance with the residential standards, the RSI
6 standards for urban zones, metropolitan zones.
7 Q It's also your testimony that as
8 individual plans come in, obviously, the planning
9 board is going to take a look and make certain
10 determinations as to whether the number of parking
11 spaces are adequate or not. Is that correct?
12 A Yes. That's correct.
13 Q Do you have anything else on
14 parking?
15 A Well, I would like to give you the
16 numbers because I think you would like to know.
17 Q Okay.
18 A The total parking required, based on
19 the calculations to which I referred and some
20 other references to parking requirements for the
21 senior housing components, the brownstones, to
22 which testimony was provided at a previous
23 application, the parking elements necessary to
24 service the revised, the renovated banana
25 building, have come to a total of 6,288 spaces.
Staines - Redirect - Kienz
184
1 Our PD application has proposed 6,405
2 parking spaces.
3 The reasons, as I mentioned earlier, for
4 the provision in excess of the requirements is --
5 we recognize this is conceptual in nature -- the
6 specific site plan coming in for site plan
7 approval, each building's parking total may adjust
8 slightly, and, as good planners, we felt it
9 prudent to exceed the ordinance by some modest
10 degree.
11 Q Anything else on parking?
12 A No.
13 Q We are also providing for
14 landscaping and parking areas in accordance with
15 the ordinance standards. Is that correct?
16 A That, of course, I believe, you are
17 referring to those parking areas on grade, and
18 there are standards that apply to the provisions
19 of shade trees and other landscaping elements,
20 yes, we will comply.
21 Q Now, as a result of moving all this
22 parking inside, we are still --
23 MR. KIENZ: Go ahead, Steve.
24 MR. WEIR: Plate 210.
25 Q In conclusion, it's your testimony,
Staines - Redirect - Kienz
185
1 with all this parking with the development that we
2 talked about and with the proposed land use
3 scheme, we will be able to provide -- would you
4 describe what we are providing, please.
5 A Well, quite frankly, the major
6 element that we have been describing towards the
7 development is by concentrating the development,
8 concentrating the parking, reducing the parking in
9 order to avail ourselves of the public
10 transportation.
11 We have been able to allow significantly
12 greater views of the river than otherwise would
13 have been provided if we really followed the
14 strict letter of the ordinance or provided a more
15 suburban, if you will, layout and provided excess
16 parking.
17 MR. KIENZ: Just to make sure
18 everybody remembers, go to the other
19 graphic on this.
20 MR. WEIR: Plate 209.
21 MR. KIENZ: This plate shows what
22 the ordinance allows. Is that correct?
23 THE WITNESS: The ordinance will
24 allow the light-gray or light-blue
25 respective of which item you are looking
Staines - Redirect - Kienz
186
1 at.
2 That light-blue area would be the
3 area of the river you would not see.
4 Q That percentage on this plate under
5 the ordinance is what?
6 A 43 percent.
7 MR. WEIR: Plate 210.
8 Q 43 percent down to?
9 A We now have an impacted water area
10 of only 14 percent, and that is due to the
11 concentration of our community and the
12 incorporation of the master plan concept.
13 Q Do you have any further testimony?
14 A No.
15 MR. KIENZ: It's all yours, Mr.
16 Chairman.
17 MR. DUNN: I have a question on
18 this plate.
19 MR. GOULD: Okay. Mr. Dunn.
20 MR. DUNN: Why is area -- where
21 the ferry terminal is located light blue,
22 why doesn't that dark blue come all the way
23 into the shoreline?
24 THE WITNESS: Actually, it may not
25 be as clear because of the size of the
Staines
187
1 exhibit, but there is an area at the
2 shoreline which had been visible. This
3 white element is actually referring to the
4 extension of the view of the ferry terminal
5 itself.
6 If you were standing at a point on
7 JFK Boulevard and looking down through the
8 view corridor, you would, in fact, see the
9 shoreline to the west of the ferry
10 terminal, but since the ferry terminal
11 itself is a water-related use, that sits in
12 the water itself and will obstruct some
13 portion of the view of the cove, but it is
14 a lower element, and that's why the
15 introduction of that blue area reflects the
16 fact that it's a shorter building than
17 those buildings immediately to the west.
18 MR. GOULD: Just picking up on
19 that question from Tom, I think the
20 definition in the ordinance of the view
21 corridor says that you need to be able to
22 see the shoreline. Is that correct?
23 THE WITNESS: Yes, view corridor.
24 That's correct.
25 MR. GOULD: So on the corridor
Staines
188
1 that is the Old Glory view corridor, I
2 believe that's the angled one that you see
3 crossing there --
4 THE WITNESS: Yes.
5 MR. GOULD: -- do you have a
6 shoreline view there as well?
7 THE WITNESS: Well, our
8 understanding of the definition of the Old
9 Glory Park view corridor is a prescribed
10 definition, and it is not consistent with
11 the definition of view corridors in
12 general.
13 In case of the Old Glory Park, the
14 Old Glory Park view corridor makes no
15 mention of the provision of a view of the
16 actual shoreline.
17 MR. GOULD: Can you read the
18 provision to me?
19 THE WITNESS: Certainly.
20 "The Old Glory Park view" -- for
21 reference it's Page 2314 -- "shall mean a
22 view corridor that is not less than 100
23 feet wide located as nearly as may be
24 practicable, so as to provide a view
25 corridor from the Old Glory Park viewing
189
1 point. This view corridor may be oriented
2 and calculated at an angle other than
3 orthogonal to the pierhead line of the
4 Hudson River line provided that in no event
5 shall this view corridor be oriented at an
6 angle that is greater than 30 degrees
7 southerly from the orthogonal to the
8 pierhead line as viewed from Old Glory
9 Park."
10 MR. KIENZ: Mr. Chairman --
11 MR. SEGRETO: What page did the
12 witness just read from?
13 MR. DUNN: 2314.
14 MR. SEGRETO: 2314.
15 MR. KIENZ: Mr. Chairman, would
16 you -- if you would like, since she is
17 coming back next week, we can provide that
18 information if that would be helpful to the
19 board.
20 MR. GOULD: Okay.
21 MR. SEGRETO: Do I understand you
22 are not going to complete her cross tonight
23 --
24 MR. GOULD: I am sorry?
25 MR. SEGRETO: -- her direct?
190
1 MR. KIENZ: We are done.
2 MR. GOULD: Yes.
3 MR. KIENZ: I will rest.
4 MR. GOULD: The direct is
5 finished.
6 MR. KIENZ: The direct is
7 finished.
8 MR. DUNN: What he said was they
9 would respond further to the board question
10 at the next meeting.
11 MR. SEGRETO: She will be back to
12 respond to board questions?
13 MR. DUNN: Yes.
14 MR. KIENZ: To the question or
15 to, I imagine, that you may have.
16 MS. KRAVITZ: Ms. Staines, you
17 mentioned at the beginning of the meeting
18 tonight that the ferry maintenance building
19 is no longer on the site plan.
20 MR. KIENZ: That's correct.
21 MS. KRAVITZ: And since it has not
22 been mentioned again since then, can we
23 assume correctly that there will be no
24 ferry maintenance building within this site
25 plan area, that it's going to be off the
191
1 site?
2 MR. KIENZ: You can assume it's
3 not going to be on the site.
4 MS. KRAVITZ: Because, obviously,
5 the ferry is going to need something.
6 Okay.
7 And I have one question about plate
8 209
9 MR. KIENZ: Plate 209.
10 MS. KRAVITZ: This is the Old Glory
11 view corridor question.
12 MR. GIARDINO: Steve, would you put
13 209 up.
14 MR. WEIR: Plate 209.
15 MS. KRAVITZ: And I am sure most of
16 this is going to be answered next week, but
17 the light portion where it says "Impacted
18 water" that goes across the entire Hudson
19 River --
20 MR. KIENZ: That's correct.
21 MS. KRAVITZ: -- the Old Glory Park
22 is almost directly in front of that, so
23 when one stands at Old Glory Park you
24 could, in fact, have that entire length of
25 the river blocked?
192
1 MR. KIENZ: This plate, as they
2 testified to, this plate represents what
3 would be allowed under the ordinance.
4 MS. KRAVITZ: I just wanted that
5 clarification.
6 MR. GIARDINO: Could I clarify that
7 a little better?
8 MR. KIENZ: I think I just did.
9 This is what the zoning ordinance allows.
10 MR. GOULD: Just following up on
11 your question about the ferry maintenance
12 building, that lot is still part of this PD
13 application?
14 MR. KIENZ: Yes.
15 MR. GOULD: So the area of that
16 lot has been figured into all the
17 calculations that we have seen?
18 MR. KIENZ: That's correct.
19 MR. GOULD: Is there a building
20 of any sort contemplated on that lot?
21 MR. KIENZ: No, not at this time.
22 MR. GOULD: Okay.
23 MR. SEGRETO: Will they accept as a
24 condition of any approval that they should
25 not put a building?
193
1 I just ask that rhetorically now
2 because for him to say that now doesn't
3 constitute a prohibition unless it's in the
4 resolution.
5 MS. KRAVITZ: I have one further
6 question pertinent to that.
7 Will that piece of brownfield be
8 remediated seeing how close it is to the
9 park?
10 MR. KIENZ: The answer is yes.
11 MR. GOULD: Okay. I have a few
12 more questions.
13 I am going to try to just follow the
14 order in which it was presented, and I will
15 try to refer to the exhibits when I can.
16 MR. KIENZ: Get ready, Steve.
17 MR. GOULD: Initially, we talked
18 about a phasing of the project, and I think
19 you described there were three phases.
20 MS. STAINES: Right.
21 MR. GOULD: The first phase
22 included the park and a number of -- of the
23 buildings that you indicated, the ferry
24 terminal, I believe, the brownstones and
25 the senior care facility.
194
1 MS. STAINES: Correct.
2 MR. GOULD: How would the walkway
3 construction time out with those phases?
4 MR. WEIR: Plate 195.
5 MS. STAINES: Thank you.
6 In Phase 1 the walkway would be
7 constructed in concert with the provision
8 of the waterfront park to the south. The
9 waterfront walkway would be improved, of
10 course, and paved and landscaped to the
11 east of the banana building.
12 The portion that relates to the
13 brownstone buildings would also be included
14 in Phase 1, so almost the entire southerly
15 half of the site will contain a waterfront
16 walkway.
17 There is no waterfront walkway in
18 concert with Building 15, the seniors
19 building, so we do not anticipate any
20 construction -- we would not propose at
21 this juncture construction of the
22 waterfront walkway as part of that Phase 1
23 element.
24 However, the relocation of the ferry
25 maintenance terminal allows us a
195
1 significant length of waterfront walkway
2 for construction.
3 As we proceed into the successive
4 phases, the waterfront walkway that is
5 adjacent to the building then under
6 construction would also be proposed for
7 construction at that time.
8 MR. KIENZ: You meant the ferry
9 terminal, not the ferry maintenance
10 facility.
11 MS. STAINES: I beg your pardon. I
12 have that on the brain now. I beg your
13 pardon. Yes.
14 MR. GOULD: I am sorry.
15 Refresh my memory, the third phase
16 of the project comprises what?
17 MS. STAINES: The third phase of
18 the project actually is these three
19 buildings to the -- I would say they are to
20 the north of the building immediately in
21 front of Arthur's Landing Restaurant, so
22 the portion of the walkway that is adjacent
23 to those buildings would, in fact, be
24 constructed in concert with the
25 construction of those buildings in Phase 3.
196
1 MR. GOULD: Okay. Moving on just
2 so that I can be clear about this, there
3 was a reference to the affordable housing
4 portion.
5 MR. KIENZ: Yes, Mr. Chairman.
6 MR. GOULD: And there is a
7 formula, I think, you said of 20 percent of
8 the units.
9 MS. STAINES: Yes.
10 MR. GOULD: Ten percent of those
11 units need to be provided on-site, or half
12 of the 20 percent rather, and the other
13 half could be provided off-site.
14 MR. KIENZ: That's correct, at
15 least as we understand your ordinance.
16 MR. GOULD: Do you have a
17 specific feeling now or statement now about
18 how many of those might, in fact, be
19 off-site?
20 MR. KIENZ: Usually, that's
21 something you work out with a municipality,
22 and the municipality has its own plans and
23 its own ideas as to what should, in fact,
24 happen. That's something that you wind up
25 entering into a dialogue about.
197
1 MR. GOULD: Okay. And would that
2 in any way affect the way in which you
3 would develop -- the size of the units, the
4 count of the units or anything like that?
5 MR. KIENZ: I don't think -- the
6 Mount Laurel obligations are the Mount
7 Laurel obligations. That's something that
8 this municipality has certain obligations
9 to fulfill.
10 We have certain obligations based on
11 the ordinances, and we certainly would have
12 to deal with the planning board on it and
13 listen to the instructions and direction of
14 your counsel and whoever else is dealing
15 with it in this municipality.
16 MR. GOULD: Okay. I guess what I
17 am asking is, if it was determined that
18 there wasn't enough land area in Weehawkwn
19 proper to provide ten percent or half of
20 those units, that they would have to be in
21 this development, I guess that's something
22 we will have --
23 MR. KIENZ: I think you have to
24 talk to your legal counsel about it.
25 MR. GOULD: Sort out --
198
1 MR. DUNN: There is the housing
2 trust fund alternate as well as to
3 building.
4 MR. GOULD: They can contribute
5 to that fund?
6 MR. DUNN: They have to build
7 ten percent on-site. There are various
8 options that can be -- can be done, one,
9 which includes the housing trust fund.
10 MR. GOULD: Thank you.
11 MR. DUNN: And keep in mind that
12 Weehawken has no prospective need
13 requirement under Mount Laurel.
14 THE PUBLIC: Excuse me.
15 MR. DUNN: Weehawken has no
16 prospective need requirement under Mount
17 Laurel.
18 THE PUBLIC: Because the ordinance
19 requirements were changed last year. They
20 were different in '93 when you first wrote
21 the element. They went down substantially.
22 MR. GOULD: Okay.
23 MR. TURNER: We have been
24 certified for five years.
25 MR. DUNN: Let's stop this.
199
1 The reason the ordinance was changed
2 was because COHA required that it be
3 changed.
4 MR. GOULD: Okay. Tom, could you
5 just explain to me a little bit the
6 differences between principal and accessory
7 uses so -- just so I can understand.
8 I understand that everything on here
9 is an approved principal use with the
10 exception of, I think you said, the ferry
11 building and the parking.
12 MS. STAINES: Structured parking.
13 MR. GOULD: The structured
14 parking?
15 MS. STAINES: Correct.
16 MR. GOULD: And so, in effect,
17 they are all approved. They are all
18 allowable uses. One is accessory and one
19 is principal.
20 MR. DUNN: There are
21 requirements of the ordinance with respect
22 to accessory ferry terminals, and it's
23 referred to on Page 2375.
24 MR. GOULD: I will look at that.
25 Okay. Just on this map that you
200
1 have up right now, I am just curious, and
2 this may be a site drafting error, on the
3 upper right-hand corner there, the green
4 area is shown overlapping Boulevard East
5 and some of the blocks up there.
6 MS. STAINES: That was a little
7 exuberance.
8 MR. DUNN: You didn't include
9 that acreage in your calculations?
10 MS. STAINES: No, we did not. We
11 were very conservative.
12 MR. GOULD: That was my next
13 question.
14 Okay. If you could go to Plate 212,
15 please.
16 Michael, I think you indicated --
17 MR. WEIR: Plate 212.
18 MR. GOULD: -- yes, the view
19 corridor between -- and I don't know your
20 building numbers necessarily -- but the
21 building that is to the west of the ferry
22 terminal.
23 MR. KIENZ: Give the chairman --
24 MR. GOULD: Between that one and
25 the building just to the north of that.
201
1 MR. GIARDINO: This building and
2 this building here, yes.
3 MR. GOULD: Right. I think your
4 testimony that was a 97-foot wide view
5 corridor.
6 MR. GIARDINO: That's correct.
7 I know you will point out the
8 graphic has it listed as, I believe, 80
9 feet. That's a typo error.
10 MR. GOULD: It is a 97-foot wide
11 corridor at that location?
12 MR. GIARDINO: That's not confirmed
13 in the computer.
14 MR. GOULD: On this same slide,
15 what are the very wide blue swaths at the
16 southern end of the site?
17 MR. GIARDINO: The view corridor --
18 if you recall, the view corridor are a
19 requirement north of the southern most
20 northerly view plane.
21 This area here is actually, in
22 effect, because we are not building
23 anything, it's one gigantic view corridor,
24 but it's not a prescribed view corridor
25 because it lies predominantly to the south
202
1 of the southern most boundary of Weehawken.
2 MR. GOULD: Even though it is an
3 effective view corridor, you haven't
4 included that in any of your tallies of the
5 total of the view corridors?
6 MR. GIARDINO: Right. It would not
7 be within the area of the required total.
8 MR. GOULD: As well as the one
9 north of the banana building.
10 MR. GIARDINO: The boundary line
11 falls approximately here.
12 MR. GOULD: Okay.
13 MR. GIARDINO: So everything here --
14 from here north falls in that definition.
15 MR. GOULD: That's included?
16 Those wide areas are included in that?
17 MR. GIARDINO: Yes.
18 MR. GOULD: I understand that.
19 Okay. Parking, I just want to make
20 sure the 6405 proposed number that you gave
21 --
22 MS. STAINES: Yes.
23 MR. GOULD: -- is that inclusive
24 of parallel parking and at-grade parking?
25 MS. STAINES: Yes, it is.
203
1 MR. GOULD: Okay. And in
2 Building 7 --
3 MS. STAINES: Right.
4 MR. GOULD: --there is no
5 parking?
6 MS. STAINES: That's correct.
7 There is no parking.
8 MR. WEIR: Plate 195.
9 MR. GOULD: Okay. And my last
10 question is -- you may be giving testimony.
11 We may hear testimony about this later. If
12 that's the case, just tell me.
13 Could you break down the parking
14 into the various uses, office, residential,
15 public?
16 MR. KIENZ: We can. Certainly,
17 we can do that for you, Mr. Chairman.
18 MS. STAINES: I don't think I have
19 that simple compilation right now.
20 MR. KIENZ: Laura, we can provide
21 that.
22 You asked for one other thing. We
23 can provide that on the chart for you.
24 MR. GOULD: Thank you.
25 That's all the questions I have.
204
1 Are there any other questions from
2 board members?
3 MR. SEGRETO: Mr. Chairman, just a
4 matter of personal privilege.
5 It's 11:10. I started at nine
6 o'clock, which would be -- I have been
7 going nonstop. I have to be going nonstop
8 tomorrow. It's ten after 11.
9 MR. GOULD: I would like to
10 finish up with the board portion.
11 When we come back we can take any
12 comments or questions from the public.
13 MR. SEGRETO: From the public.
14 MR. GOULD: Unless people really
15 want to stay and do that tonight. We are
16 trying to end by 11, so we will run a
17 little over here. We will start with that,
18 and then we can continue with your
19 cross-examination, if that's okay.
20 MR. SEGRETO: Because I wouldn't
21 want to stay here. If the public is going
22 to come up, that could bring us to
23 midnight.
24 MR. GOULD: I think we will try
25 to save that to the next meeting.
205
1 MR. TURNER: Mr. Chairman, if we
2 are going to do some changes, I think some
3 of the charts in the presentation of
4 December 15, 1999, it's hard to read.
5 There are a lot of charts here on parking
6 that are very difficult to read.
7 Maybe you can do it bigger.
8 MR. SEGRETO: The same case in our
9 book, a lot of these numbers are absolutely
10 illegible. We will send you -- maybe you
11 can have your graphic people make them
12 legible.
13 MR. TURNER: 259 section of the
14 December 9th handout.
15 MR. GOULD: Maybe you can just
16 provide us with a xerox copy of that or
17 something a little more clearer.
18 Okay. Any other board questions?
19 MR. ROSAS: I have for you,
20 Michael, this, you can peruse that.
21 MR. GOULD: Do we need to enter
22 that?
23 MR. DUNN: What's that?
24 MR. GOULD: Anthony has done a
25 sketch.
206
1 MR. GIARDINO: I think I see --
2 MR. ROSAS: The actual height of
3 the buildings.
4 MR. DUNN: Please, let's not
5 refer to sketches that aren't in the
6 record. Let's do it fresh next time.
7 Let's do it when we come back fresh next
8 time, please.
9 MR. GOULD: All right.
10 Okay. In that case I will take a
11 motion to adjourn.
12 MR. KIENZ: Just one very
13 quickly.
14 There was a subpoena issued that we
15 were supposed to bring all our planning
16 files.
17 We have many files up here. We also
18 have a truck sitting downstairs.
19 It seems to me that based on the
20 fact that we finished our testimony, this
21 would be the ideal time for Mr. Segreto to
22 avail himself of the weekend in between, he
23 can look at whatever documents he wants. I
24 will extend my invitation for him to do it
25 again.
207
1 We literally have -- you can see how
2 complicated this material is, and we don't
3 know what he is even looking for, so it
4 makes it very difficult, cumbersome, and,
5 quite frankly, unfair to my client. We
6 have a week, you can go and look, and we
7 will bring whatever he would like, but for
8 this whole broadbrush subpoena it's very,
9 very difficult and it's getting costly. We
10 have a truck sitting outside with
11 materials.
12 MR. SEGRETO: I will look at my
13 calendar for next week. If I have a free
14 day next week I will make arrangements with
15 Glenn to go somewhere and look at them, and
16 I can narrow down the scope of what I need
17 for the next meeting.
18 Is that fair enough, Glenn?
19 If I am on trial, forget it.
20 MR. DUNN: All right.
21 MR. SEGRETO: We will try to work
22 that out.
23 MR. DUNN: That's fine.
24 I have one other procedural thing.
25 Last time I asked you whether you
208
1 had any objection to the Friends of the --
2 your clients or representatives of your
3 clients meeting with the board's experts,
4 and you said you would get back to us.
5 Do you have an answer on that?
6 MR. SEGRETO: I think we have some
7 serious reservations about the
8 appropriateness of that, particularly since
9 the board's experts are going to be
10 submitting reports and eventually I will be
11 cross-examining all of them.
12 MR. DUNN: You don't wish to
13 have your clients to have an opportunity to
14 discuss their concerns off the record with
15 the board's experts?
16 MR. SEGRETO: Well, the problem
17 about it being off the record it's not off
18 the record of the experts, so we thought
19 about this, and we think it's inappropriate
20 at this time to do that.
21 That doesn't mean that some of the
22 dialogues that are going on with the mayor
23 and meetings which are without prejudice
24 cannot continue. I don't think we want to
25 sit down with board experts, have our
209
1 people sit down with board experts now.
2 MR. DUNN: Okay. That's
3 inconsistent with something that I heard
4 today.
5 MR. SEGRETO: You heard something
6 to the contrary of that?
7 MR. DUNN: I heard --
8 MR. SEGRETO: I will talk to our
9 people again.
10 MR. DUNN: I heard from Donna
11 Jandik, the mayor's secretary, that Mr.
12 Harmon had accepted the board's invitation
13 to sit down with our experts, whatever.
14 MR. SEGRETO: All I can tell you is
15 what my observation with our people was at
16 the close of last week's meeting.
17 I will talk to them again tomorrow,
18 and if there has been a change of mind,
19 that's a decision that they will make,
20 obviously, I will let you know.
21 MR. GOULD: Our next meeting is
22 --
23 MR. DUNN: We are carrying it
24 until next Thursday night without further
25 notice.
210
1 MR. GOULD: Seven o'clock here.
2 MR. DUNN: 16th.
3 MR. KIENZ: December 16th. No
4 further public notice being required.
5 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
6 MR. GOULD: Do I have a motion to
7 adjourn?
8 MS. KRAVITZ; I make a motion.
9 MR. GOULD: Second.
10 MR. BARSA: Second.
11 MR. GOULD: Adjourned.
12 * * *
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1 C E R T I F I C A T E
2
3 I, PHILIP A. FISHMAN, a Notary Public and
4 Certified Shorthand Reporter for the State of New
5 Jersey, do hereby certify that the foregoing is a
6 true and accurate transcript of the hearing as
7 taken stenographically by and before me at the
8 time, place and on the date hereinbefore set
9 forth.
10 I DO FURTHER CERTIFY that I am neither a
11 relative nor employee nor attorney nor counsel of
12 any of the parties to this action and that I am
13 neither a relative nor employee of such attorney
14 or counsel, and that I am not financially
15 interested in the action.
16
17
18 Dated _______________ ________________________
19 PHILIP A. FISHMAN, C.S.R.
A Notary Public of the
20 State of New Jersey
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