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NOVEMBER 4, 1999

Jeffrey Lanza, Engineer, Direct Testimony
Michael Friedman Environmental Witness, Cross-Examination by James Segreto

Below is the transcript from the Weehawken Planning Board Hearing on
ovember 4th, 1999.  This html document follows the format of the official transcript. The transcript format has 25 lines per page. Each page is numbered. Because the transcript is so long, the file has been broken down into 4 different web pages.

Jump to 11/04/99 pages 56 to 110
Jump to 11/04/99 pages 111 to 166
Jump to 11/04/99 pages 167  to 213 (end of transcript)

Go to Page 25

3 7:00 PM
MARK GOULD, Chairman
Appearing on behalf of the Board.
Appearing on behalf of the Applicant.
Attorney for the Objectors.
25 (973) 285-5331 - FAX (973) 285-5293
1 I N D E X
5 by Mr. Kienz 10
7 by Mr. Segreto 99
10 I N D E X O F E X H I B I T S
12 A-2 26
13 A-8 152
14 A-9 12
15 A-10 12
16 A-11 12
1 MR. GOULD: Thank you.
2 Can you hear me back there?
3 Okay. This is a regular public
4 meeting of the Weehawken Planning Board.
5 (Mr. Gould reads the Open Public
6 Meetings Act.)
7 MR. GOULD: Will the clerk please
8 call the roll.
10 MR. BARSA: Here.
11 THE SECRETARY: Mr. Turner.
12 MR. TURNER: Here.
13 THE SECRETARY: Mr. Gould.
14 MR. GOULD: Here.
15 THE SECRETARY: Mr. Cabrera.
16 MR. CABRERA: Here.
17 THE SECRETARY: Ms. Kravitz.
18 MS. KRAVITZ: Here.
19 MR. GOULD: Okay. This is the
20 continued public hearing of a preliminary
21 planned development application for Block
22 39.05, Lot 1.01; Block 39.05, Lot 2.01;
23 Block 45, Lots 6, 7, 8, and 9; Block 45.01,
24 Lots 1.01, 2.01, 3.01, and 4.01; Block
25 45.02, Lot 1.01; Block 64, Lots 8 and 9;
1 Block 64.01, Lots 1.01, 2.01, and 3.01;
2 Block 64.02, Lot 1.01; and Block 64.03, Lot
3 1.01.
4 The applicant is Port Imperial
5 South, LLC.
6 Will counsel please enter their
7 appearances.
8 MR. KIENZ: Of course, Mr.
9 Chairman.
10 For the record, I am Glenn Kienz
11 here on behalf of the applicant, Port
12 Imperial South, LLC.
13 MR. GOULD: Thank you.
14 MR. DUNN: It's now 7:20, and I
15 notice that Mr. Segreto is not here.
16 Mr. Kienz, do you wish to proceed or
17 do you want to ask the board to recess for
18 a couple of minutes to find out whether he
19 is coming?
20 MR. KIENZ: I would assume that
21 there should have been a call in our age of
22 electronic marvel. I know that there are
23 enormously vast numbers of ways to get --
24 to get in touch.
25 We have a stenographer here.
1 I know -- I guess when we had left
2 off, Mr. Chairman, it's my recollection
3 that there was still going to be some cross
4 of Mr. Friedman, and then we were set to
5 proceed with our -- is that all right --
6 then we were set to proceed with our next
7 witness.
8 I will certainly do what's directed
9 by the board.
10 We have Mr. Lanza ready to proceed.
11 Certainly, I think you were also --
12 there may have been another public member
13 that wanted to ask Mr. Lanza some questions
14 --
15 MR. DUNN: Mr. Friedman.
16 MR. KIENZ: -- I am sorry -- Mr.
17 Friedman some questions, and I believe
18 those people were either not individuals
19 represented by him, or I am also assuming
20 they were not members of the Friends of the
21 Weehawken Waterfront, so we can certainly
22 proceed in that fashion.
23 MR. DUNN: Maybe we can see if
24 there is anybody who wanted to ask some
25 questions of Mr. Friedman pertaining to his
1 testimony at the last meeting, somebody who
2 is not represented by Mr. Segreto.
3 MR. GOULD: No.
4 MR. DUNN: Well, I am going to
5 suggest the board take a ten-minute recess.
6 MR. KIENZ: Start at 7:30, Mr.
7 Dunn?
8 MR. DUNN: Start at 7:30. We
9 are still stopping at 11:30, but I think --
10 just sometimes the traffic out in Passaic
11 County and Bergen County gets pretty bad.
12 MR. KIENZ: Passaic and Bergen?
13 MS. KRAVITZ: It's not moving. You
14 can see. Nothing is moving.
15 MR. DUNN: All right. I will
16 entertain a motion to recess for ten
17 minutes.
18 MR. GOULD: Okay. Do I have such
19 a motion?
20 MR. BARSA: I will move.
21 MR. TURNER: I will second.
22 MR. GOULD: Second.
23 Okay. Roll call, please.
24 THE SECRETARY: Mr. Barsa.
25 MR. BARSA: Yes.
1 THE SECRETARY: Mr. Turner.
2 MR. TURNER: Yes.
4 MR. GOULD: Yes.
5 THE SECRETARY: Mr. Cabrera.
7 THE SECRETARY: Ms. Kravitz.
9 MR. GOULD: Okay. We will
10 recess.
11 (Whereupon, a short recess is
12 taken.)
13 MR. GOULD: Okay. We are back on
14 the record.
15 Can we have a roll call again,
16 please.
17 MR. DUNN: It is 7:35.
18 Can we have a roll call.
19 THE SECRETARY: Mr. Barsa.
20 MR. BARSA: Here.
21 THE SECRETARY: Mr. Turner.
22 MR. TURNER: Here.
23 THE SECRETARY: Mr. Gould.
24 MR. GOULD: Here.
25 THE SECRETARY: Mr. Cabrera.
1 MR. CABRERA: Here.
2 THE SECRETARY: Ms. Kravitz.
3 MS. KRAVITZ: Here.
4 THE SECRETARY: Anthony Rosas is
5 absent.
6 MR. GOULD: Okay. Since Mr.
7 Segreto is not here, Mr. Kienz, would you
8 like to continue with your presentation or
9 what would you like to do?
10 MR. KIENZ: Yes. We have a
11 public hearing here.
12 I think where we were, though, was
13 there any other public, Mr. Chairman, that
14 wanted --
15 MR. DUNN: We asked that.
16 Nobody did.
17 MR. KIENZ: That's fine. I am
18 sorry. Go ahead.
19 MR. GOULD: So, Mr. Kienz, I take
20 it you are going -- when we left off last
21 time, Mr. Segreto had 115 minutes
22 cross-examination left of Mr. Friedman, and
23 I take it that you are going to stipulate
24 that 115 minutes still remains available
25 for -- to him for cross-examination of Mr.
1 Friedman.
2 MR. KIENZ: If, in fact, that's
3 needed. I think that was the rules of the
4 board.
5 I hoped we could move a bit more
6 expeditiously on this application than we
7 did, and I hope -- because we just lost a
8 half an hour waiting for counsel to show
9 up, so I don't know if that should come off
10 his time. We will talk about that at
11 another time.
12 MR. DUNN: We wouldn't do
13 something like that.
14 So you are going to present Mr.
15 Lanza now, and that will be subject to
16 cross-examination by Mr. Segreto after he
17 has had an opportunity to read the
18 transcript. Is that correct?
19 MR. KIENZ: He will be subject to
20 cross-examination under the rules of the
21 board. That's correct, Mr. Dunn.
22 MR. DUNN: Thank you.
23 MR. GOULD: Thank you.
24 Continue, please.
25 MR. KIENZ: Mr. Lanza, would you
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 please come up.
2 May we have him sworn, please.
3 J E F F R E Y R O B E R T L A N Z A, having been
4 duly sworn according to law, testifies
5 under oath as follows:
7 MR. KIENZ: Mr. Lanza has been
8 qualified before this board on previous
9 applications, but I assume you want us to
10 qualify him again. Is that correct?
11 MR. DUNN: Absolutely correct.
12 MR. KIENZ: Okay.
13 Q Mr. Lanza, by whom are you employed?
14 A The firm -- the engineering firm of
15 Paulus, Sokolowski & Sartor.
16 MR. DUNN: Can you spell that,
17 please?
18 THE WITNESS: P-a-u-l-u-s,
19 S-o-k-o-l-o-w-s-k-i, and Sartor,
20 S-a-r-t-o-r.
21 MR. KIENZ: I would like to --
22 while he is doing that, I have taken the
23 liberty of marking two exhibits before we
24 get started.
25 Over here is the preliminary planned
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 development, which is a set of the plans
2 that are on file with the board. It's the
3 exact same set, and that's been marked as
4 A-9.
5 MR. GOULD: Okay.
6 MR. KIENZ: The other exhibit I
7 would like to hand in to the board is a
8 copy of Mr. Lanza's curriculum vitae, which
9 has been marked as A-10.
10 MR. GOULD: Okay.
11 MR. KIENZ: While we are doing
12 this also, just as we gave you a notebook
13 of plates during the first hearing, we have
14 a notebook of plates that Mr. Lanza is
15 going to be testifying to.
16 I have marked these as A-11 for
17 reference, and we do have extra copies that
18 can be given.
19 I would like to give one to, I
20 guess, I will give it to Mr. Goldman, since
21 he had appeared at Mr. Friedman's office
22 the other day, and that way the Friends of
23 Weehawken will have a copy.
24 MR. DUNN: I don't know. I
25 prefer it be given to counsel, if counsel
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 arrives.
2 MR. KIENZ: Okay.
3 MR. DUNN: And we need copies
4 for the board.
5 MR. KIENZ: We have a box of
6 them.
7 MR. DUNN: Okay.
8 MR. KIENZ: But one of these will
9 be Mr. Segreto's. Okay?
10 MR. GOULD: Okay.
11 MR. DUNN: I will put them over
12 here on the chair.
13 MR. GOULD: That's fine.
14 Q Okay. Mr. Lanza, we have
15 established that you are gainfully employed and by
16 whom.
17 Would you please state your qualifications,
18 what degrees do you have?
19 A I have a bachelor of science degree
20 in civil engineering from Drexel University in
21 Philadelphia. I graduated in 1981.
22 Can I have the stand?
23 It will be easier when I use the pointer.
24 Q When did you graduate, Jeff?
25 A 1981.
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 Q Okay. And what degrees do you hold?
2 MR. KIENZ: Mr. Dunn, what do you
3 want us to do?
4 MR. DUNN: Mr. Segreto has
5 arrived. Let's let him get set up.
6 MR. SEGRETO: I apologize.
7 It took me one hour and ten minutes
8 from Secaucus. I can't believe it. I
9 apologize. I can see some of you are
10 nodding you can believe it.
11 MR. KIENZ: We usually encounter
12 the traffic in Bergen and Passaic Counties.
13 Why don't we give you a minute to
14 get set up. We have just barely begun.
15 MR. SEGRETO: Okay. Good.
16 MR. KIENZ: Off the record.
17 (Whereupon, a discussion takes place
18 off the record.)
19 MR. SEGRETO: Would it be --
20 MR. DUNN: All right.
21 Mr. Segreto, Mr. Lanza had just
22 started to testify.
23 Do you have any objection to that
24 and to deferring your cross-examination of
25 Mr. Friedman until Mr. Lanza has completed
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 direct testimony?
2 MR. SEGRETO: Not at all. That
3 will give me a chance to catch my breath.
4 MR. DUNN: Okay.
5 MR. SEGRETO: I do want to
6 apologize. I am going to have to figure
7 this out a little differently.
8 MR. DUNN: We probably have to
9 give you some alternate routes.
10 I wanted to ask you about the
11 subpoena. Did you get a chance to examine
12 the documents that you wanted to examine in
13 connection with the subpoena that we
14 issued?
15 MR. SEGRETO: Yes, I spent several
16 hours in the company of Glenn and Mr.
17 Friedman at the office, and we have gone
18 through a whole series of documents, and I
19 put the yellow stickers on a series of
20 documents that I ask they bring tonight
21 that I would be interested in asking
22 questions, and I have every confidence they
23 have done that.
24 MR. DUNN: Okay. Now --
25 MR. SEGRETO: I know, Mr. Dunn,
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 forgive me, I got a letter from your office
2 indicating the one document that I marked
3 as an exhibit, if I would be good enough to
4 bring an extra copy for you so that you in
5 turn can provide it to the board.
6 MR. DUNN: We will put it
7 directly into the board.
8 MR. SEGRETO: That was the
9 Memorandum of Agreement.
10 MR. DUNN: Okay. We had marked
11 that as an exhibit.
12 MR. SEGRETO: I think you asked if
13 we could give you a copy, and I have a copy
14 here. I made a photocopy.
15 MR. DUNN: I am sorry.
16 THE SECRETARY: I got --
17 MR. DUNN: This was marked as
18 Exhibit O-1, I believe. Is that correct?
19 MR. SEGRETO: Objectors-1, yes.
20 That particular copy doesn't have
21 it.
22 MR. DUNN: Doesn't have it on
23 it.
24 I am going to mark that it has
25 Exhibit O-1 as of the 28th of October.
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 Now, there are other reports on file
2 with the board, including the traffic
3 report and the fiscal impact report, and
4 then -- I guess my question for you is, do
5 you wish to have the same subpoenas issued
6 with respect to the experts in those cases
7 as you have in this one, rather than them
8 waiting until they come and testify and
9 then have you ask for a subpoena? Do you
10 wish to have a subpoena issued for those
11 files as well?
12 MR. SEGRETO: If Glenn is not
13 prepared to consentually agree to furnish
14 the inspection of the files of each of the
15 experts, if he agrees to that, is that
16 agreeable?
17 MR. DUNN: Well, we have, I
18 think it's called, a hiatus here between
19 tonight and the second of December, and I
20 would like to get all of that out of the
21 way before the second of December so that
22 we can conduct an ordering proceeding, as
23 you know the statute.
24 MR. SEGRETO: I think Glenn and I
25 are in accord because we indicated that
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 this lull of three or four weeks is going
2 to give us an opportunity to do several
3 things, one of which is to get the
4 inspection of the documents out of the way,
5 and I don't think I breached any
6 confidences when I say that Glenn and I are
7 also going to start almost immediately to
8 meet, the two attorneys, Glenn and myself
9 together, with the management people of the
10 applicant, as well as a selected group of
11 our people, for the purpose of seeing if
12 there is some way in which we can come to
13 an accommodation so that, perhaps, this
14 matter will not be an adversarial
15 proceeding, so we are going to use the
16 interim between now and the next meeting in
17 December to not only attend to my
18 inspection of documents but also to see,
19 without prejudice, that there is some way
20 that we can resolve some of our
21 differences.
22 Glenn, am I correct in speaking as
23 to that?
24 MR. DUNN: Mr. Kienz.
25 MR. KIENZ: What was indicated
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 was that there would be a chance for us to
2 talk. We certainly want to continue the
3 proceedings, because --
4 MR. SEGRETO: Oh, sure.
5 MR. KIENZ: -- quite frankly, we
6 don't want any delay. The clock is
7 running. We need to keep moving forward.
8 We are certainly always willing to listen.
9 We are certainly always willing to talk.
10 MR. DUNN: Whatever happens
11 between the parties, obviously, the
12 township is the ultimate arbitrator, but
13 from a procedural point of view, whatever
14 you talk about and whatever you discuss,
15 what I want to get out of the way is, do
16 you consent to the examination of the
17 documents between now and December 2nd?
18 MR. KIENZ: Mr. Dunn, the board
19 has already spoken. The answer is yes, we
20 want to keep this moving expeditiously.
21 Mr. Segreto is in receipt of all the
22 documents. He can certainly look at what
23 he wants. We need to keep moving forward.
24 MR. DUNN: In lieu of a subpoena
25 we have the consent of the applicant to
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 produce the document that Mr. Segreto
2 requests.
3 If there is a need for a subpoena
4 between now and the -- and the fourth, I am
5 going to recommend to the Chair that he
6 issue it.
7 If you run into a problem, we will
8 take it between now and then to try to make
9 sure that we have all the procedural things
10 out of the way, so that when we come back
11 on the fourth we can continue this
12 expeditiously.
13 MR. SEGRETO: My understanding the
14 next meeting will be December 4th.
15 MR. DUNN: I am sorry. The
16 second of December.
17 MR. SEGRETO: December 2nd at seven
18 PM here.
19 MR. KIENZ: And for the record,
20 the board issued a series of meet -- just
21 so there is no confuse, the next meeting is
22 December 2nd. The next is December 15th,
23 and the following one is December 16th.
24 MR. DUNN: That's correct.
25 MR. KIENZ: That was published at
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 an earlier meeting.
2 MR. DUNN: Published in
3 accordance with Sunshine Law, so let's go
4 on with Mr. Lanza.
5 MR. SEGRETO: We miss Christmas
6 Eve.
7 MR. DUNN: Well, we actually
8 miss Thanksgiving and Veterans Day and the
9 League of Municipalities as well.
10 MR. SEGRETO: Thank you.
11 MR. KIENZ: Mr. Segreto, just to
12 get you up to speed quickly, we marked the
13 plans that were submitted as A-9.
14 I will present you with a copy of
15 Mr. Lanza's curriculum vitae that was
16 marked as A-10 and A-11.
17 You have another notebook of Port
18 Imperial South. These will be a series of
19 plates that will be reviewed tonight during
20 the hearing process.
21 MR. SEGRETO: Has the board
22 qualified the --
23 MR. DUNN: No, he just about
24 told us who he was and who he worked for.
25 MR. SEGRETO: Counsel, let me say
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 this so we can speed up any voir dire I
2 might have.
3 I have no problem at all with the
4 gentleman's qualifications as a civil
5 engineer.
6 All I want you to do is to quickly
7 articulate what aspect of this application
8 he is going to be addressing, and then, if
9 I have any voir dire as to that, I assure
10 you it will be very limited.
11 Unquestionably, the board will
12 ultimately admit him, but I do want to know
13 what aspect of the application he is going
14 to be testifying to on direct.
15 MR. KIENZ: All right.
16 Q Jeff, what are you going to be
17 testifying to overall and specifically tonight?
18 A Specifically tonight I will be
19 addressing the utilities that propose to serve the
20 utility, water, electric, telephone, gas, sanitary
21 sewage and storm drains.
22 Q At a later point in time you will
23 also be discussing the rest of the plans you have
24 submitted as a licensed professional engineer in
25 the State of New Jersey. Is that correct?
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 A That's correct.
2 MR. SEGRETO: So there is no
3 misunderstanding, he will make a
4 representation his testimony this evening
5 will be limited to utilities, and,
6 accordingly, any cross-examination on my
7 part will be similarly limited to
8 utilities, and you make a representation
9 that he will come back again and offer
10 direct testimony on other civil engineering
11 aspects, at which time I will have an
12 opportunity to cross-examine him.
13 MR. KIENZ: I think that's
14 exactly what I said.
15 MR. DUNN: Good.
16 MR. SEGRETO: Good.
17 MR. DUNN: Okay.
18 MR. KIENZ: Given that, is there
19 any more reason to qualify Mr. Lanza?
20 MR. SEGRETO: I have no objection
21 to his qualification on utilities.
22 MR. KIENZ: And as a licensed
23 professional engineer.
24 MR. SEGRETO: And as a licensed
25 professional engineer.
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 My understanding he is an excellent
2 one, too.
3 MR. DUNN: Without objection Mr.
4 Lanza is qualified.
5 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
6 Q Okay. Mr. Lanza, you are familiar
7 with the site, are you not?
8 A Very.
9 Q And did you have an opportunity to
10 prepare plans on this site?
11 A Yes, I did.
12 Q Do you want to put the first plate
13 up?
14 MR. WARE: It's warming up right
15 now, which is Plate 24.
16 MS. KRAVITZ: Maybe you can shut
17 the lights.
18 MR. KIENZ: I think it's going to
19 get brighter.
20 MR. WARE: It just has to warm
21 up.
22 MR. KIENZ: Is everybody all
23 powered up here?
24 We are all set. Okay.
25 MR. SEGRETO: All set.
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 Counsel, I don't know how you
2 handled it the first time, but these
3 graphics, these graphics that we see on the
4 screen, are they going to be -- regarded to
5 be a part of the record, so that in the
6 event this goes to a different forum, that
7 all of these graphics are going to be
8 presented as part of the record?
9 MR. KIENZ: That's why you have
10 been presented with a notebooks that have
11 all the graphics in them. You were given
12 -- a representative of your office was
13 given the notebook which contains that
14 plate from the original one, and that was
15 No. 27.
16 MR. WARE: 24.
17 MR. KIENZ: 24. I am sorry.
18 So it's Plate 24 in the first
19 notebook that you got.
20 The rest of the plates that you are
21 going to see here and the notebook that was
22 presented to you tonight and also to the
23 board and was marked as Exhibit A-11, I
24 believe.
25 Is that correct?
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 MR. GOULD: That's correct.
2 MR. SEGRETO: I take it then
3 eventually you are going to be moving them
4 into evidence.
5 MR. KIENZ: Absolutely.
6 MR. SEGRETO: Fine.
7 Forgive me for interrupting, but I
8 will now take my notes.
9 Q Mr. Lanza, what's on that plate?
10 MR. DUNN: Again, tell us what
11 plate it is.
12 MR. WARE: Plate 24.
13 MR. DUNN: Plate 24.
14 MR. KIENZ: 24 from the first
15 part.
16 MR. DUNN: Exhibit A-2.
17 A Plate 24 is an illustrative plan of
18 the entire development showing the roads, the
19 proposed buildings, and the proposed landscaping.
20 Q Okay. Now, what are you going to
21 discuss tonight, Jeoffrey?
22 A I am going to discuss the utilities
23 that will service all the buildings, the existing,
24 new existing uses that are on the site, as well as
25 all the new buildings, and I will discuss the
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 routing of all the services and stormwater
2 management and sanitary sewage.
3 Q The reason we are doing this is
4 because it's a specific requirement under the
5 Environmental Impact Statement submission
6 requirements. Is that correct?
7 A That's correct.
8 Q Okay. Can we go to the next plate,
9 please.
10 MR. WARE: Plate 157.
11 Q Now, Geof, just before you start
12 your testimony, as this comes up, would you
13 explain to everyone what's going on. We will go
14 back and forth between this plate and the other
15 plate so people can see.
16 A That's a good idea.
17 What we have is a series of exhibits that
18 is based upon the plans that have been submitted,
19 copies of which are over here on the easel.
20 Q By the "easel" you are referring to
21 the exhibit that's been marked what, Geof?
22 A A-9. The Exhibit A-9 has been
23 produced graphically so it can be shown on the
24 screen in front of you for your quality and
25 convenience from seeing a set of plans from far
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 away.
2 It's based -- it based on several sheets
3 that are in the planned set, PDs 15 through 18,
4 which are the utility plans, and they have been
5 compiled, the text, most of the text has been
6 eliminated for clarity, but they are the exact
7 same computer files that were generated when we
8 generated the paper plans.
9 Q Okay. So what you are saying is,
10 this is overall, this is an amalgam of Sheets 15,
11 16, 17 and 18 in the plans. Is that correct?
12 A That's correct.
13 Q And then subsequent plates will show
14 actually Sheet 15, but Sheet 15 will only be
15 discussing waterlines at this point for just
16 clarity and ease of testimony.
17 Is that correct?
18 A That's right.
19 We pulled each utility service out onto a
20 separate plate. They are all layered on the
21 plans, on the paper plans, and we segregated them,
22 so can discuss more clearly existing and proposed
23 water services, electric services, gas, and so
24 forth.
25 What we will do after we look at an
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 overview of each of the utilities, such as the
2 water, which is coming up first, we will go down
3 to the south end and look at a blowup.
4 Q Use your pointer and just show.
5 A Look at the blowup of the south end,
6 and then we will move to another exhibit that gets
7 us more to the venture, and so on and so forth.
8 Q Now --
9 A We will do that for each utility.
10 MR. KIENZ: Let's go back to 24,
11 Steve.
12 MR. WARE: Okay.
13 Q Now, 24 and this plate are
14 identical, is that correct, for the four corners
15 of the exhibit? Is that right?
16 A That's correct.
17 MR. KIENZ: Okay. So this one is
18 all colored.
19 If we go back to the other plate,
20 Steve.
21 MR. WARE: 157.
22 Q Thank you.
23 You will see that 157 is colored.
24 Is that correct, Geof?
25 A It starts out colored.
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 Q And the color fades so you can
2 actually see the utility. Is that correct?
3 A Right. The intent is to have -- the
4 color fades back, the utilities get more clearer
5 to you, and then they will get even clearer as we
6 go to the blowups.
7 Q Geof, let's stop for a second.
8 MR. KIENZ: Does the board want
9 to shift around?
10 MR. DUNN: Shift around? Not
11 necessarily turn our backs to the audience.
12 MR. KIENZ: All set?
13 Q All right. Geof, let's start from
14 the south end, and would you please explain what
15 this sheet shows.
16 A Yes. This is the sheet -- we will
17 start with the waterlines, and before we go to the
18 blowup, I just want to give an overview of the
19 water service, as well as the other utilities,
20 real quickly, and then we will go into the
21 details.
22 There are some existing uses on the site
23 right now that include the banana building,
24 Arthur's Landing Restaurant, the Jamestown Ferry
25 and the ferry terminal, the marina, and there is a
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 small -- it's a jitney bus maintenance garage at
2 this end.
3 The center portion here is the existing
4 parking lot for the current ferry terminal. These
5 existing uses have utilities that go to them right
6 now. They are all sized to handle those uses.
7 When this building -- when this full build
8 out occurs, utilities will need to be increased,
9 and this is what we will discuss tonight in more
10 detail.
11 Basically, there are utilities existing in
12 West New York. There are utilities down at the
13 Lincoln Harbor area. The utilities that need the
14 existing uses on the site now come in from the
15 south, as well as from the north. That will be
16 the case when we put in the proposed utilities.
17 They, likewise, would come in from the
18 north and the south. The main utility corridors
19 will be Port Imperial Boulevard and the Avenue of
20 Port Imperial, which runs like this.
21 MR. KIENZ: Steve, we can go to
22 the next plate.
23 MR. WARE: Plate 158.
24 THE WITNESS: This is the very
25 south end.
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 Again, the color will fade back each
2 time, and the utilities become a little
3 more clear.
4 The light-blue -- the light-blue
5 lines are indicated -- are indicated here,
6 which is the existing water service.
7 The dark lines, this is supposed to
8 be like a dark-blue line, is the proposed
9 water service. This is just the south end
10 of the site now.
11 For reference, this is the banana
12 building. What we are showing is the
13 existing water service to the banana
14 building.
15 In this area is an eight-inch line
16 that comes in from a series of utility
17 lines up in the Baldwin Avenue area.
18 Water is supplied by United Water of
19 New Jersey, and, Steve, we can move onto
20 the next one.
21 Q I want to go back to the last one
22 first.
23 What kind of service is available at the
24 south end, Geof?
25 A At the south end there are several
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 water connections, several water service
2 connection points. An eight-inch tap comes off of
3 existing water service at Baldwin Avenue that
4 feeds the area of the banana building.
5 Q By an eight-inch tap you mean an
6 eight-inch pipe comes in?
7 A Eight-inch pipe, yes, that line will
8 continue further. We will go to that in a second.
9 Up to the area off the page, up to the area
10 of the restaurant, Arthur's Landing, and the
11 existing ferry terminal, that eight-inch service,
12 essentially, services those uses. It also
13 provides water for the marina.
14 Additionally, on this plate we are showing
15 a heavy line, which -- the heavy-blue line, which
16 is the proposed water service, as well as these
17 little stubs that come off, which are proposed
18 fire hydrants.
19 Q Now, here and here.
20 Are you telling us -- how big is this new
21 proposed waterline going to be? What's the size
22 of that?
23 A This new line will be a 24-inch
24 water main. United Water of New Jersey has water
25 service coming through Lincoln Harbor.
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 Q Let's go to the other plate. Let's
2 go to the previous plate, 157?
3 A Yes, 157.
4 MR. WARE: Plate 157.
5 THE WITNESS: Back in this area
6 here, at Lincoln Harbor, there is a 24-inch
7 stub that United Water had left in
8 anticipation of eventual construction of
9 this project site.
10 They, likewise, have done the same
11 thing in West New York. They are preparing
12 to provide water to this site with a
13 24-inch main.
14 Q At each end there are 24-inch mains?
15 A Yes. This site doesn't need a
16 24-inch main to build this out. We need a 12-inch
17 main, but we are going to build a 24-inch main to
18 make the connection to improve the regional water
19 supply and redundancy for the water service.
20 The difference between the 12-inch pipe and
21 the 24-inch pipe will be borne by the water
22 company, but we will be putting in a 24-inch main
23 to service the region, essentially.
24 MR. KIENZ: Okay. Now let's go
25 to Plate 158, Steve.
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 MR. WARE: 158.
2 THE WITNESS: Again, this will
3 fade.
4 Q You said the little bumpouts, Geof,
5 are fire hydrants?
6 A Yes, there is an example of one
7 there, there, there, there, down in here.
8 These fire hydrants are spaced in
9 accordance with our discussions with the fire
10 subcode official and fire captain, as well as with
11 the water company, and this is -- this is the
12 basic layout that you see for the fire hydrants.
13 They are spaced approximately 250, 300 feet
14 apart. The stubs that go to the fire hydrants are
15 six-inch or eight-inch lines. The main trump
16 line, though, is 24-inch.
17 Q Now, the lines servicing the
18 building that's shown there, that's not going to
19 be a 24-inch line, is it?
20 A No. No. This is the line just for
21 the fire hydrants.
22 We don't have shown yet on these plans the
23 water connections, the service connections for the
24 proposed buildings yet because they haven't been
25 designed. They will be smaller than 24-inchs.
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 Q Because you don't need 24 inches to
2 service it?
3 A No. This project will consume about
4 700,000 gallons per day of water.
5 Q I am sorry. What will consume
6 700,000 gallons?
7 A This project.
8 Q This project?
9 A Right.
10 Q Is there anything else on this plate
11 that you wanted to discuss, Geof?
12 A Basically, the existing waterlines
13 that are shown here are going to be abandoned, and
14 the new lines will be as shown, the heavy-blue
15 line.
16 Q Just so everyone understands, there
17 is a dark line running from left to right above
18 the waterlines.
19 What does that represent?
20 A Right in here?
21 Q Yes.
22 A That's the existing Conrail railroad
23 tracks.
24 Q Okay. Can we go to Plate 159.
25 MR. WARE: 159.
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 A Again, for reference, this is the
2 banana building, and you can see the light-blue
3 lines, as I had mentioned.
4 That's the water service that comes in all
5 the way from Baldwin into the area of Arthur's
6 Landing. It also feeds into the docks for the
7 marina. It's an eight-inch line, and, again, we
8 show the fire hydrants for the proposed line,
9 24-inch main comes in like this in front of the
10 brownstones and then heads east along the Avenue
11 of Port Imperial. That will continue along the
12 Avenue of Port Imperial.
13 What you can barely see right here there is
14 a branch off from the 24-inch that goes up towards
15 Port Imperial Boulevard. That will continue along
16 the boulevard creating a loop, which you will see
17 in the next exhibits.
18 These existing waterlines will be abandoned
19 except for the little lines that run along the
20 docks. They can remain.
21 Q Next plate.
22 MR. WARE: Plate 160.
23 A This is the area I just mentioned
24 that's -- where the branch will occur. We just
25 set out to Pershing Road. The proposed 24-inch
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 main will continue along the Avenue of Port
2 Imperial as such and then go -- eventually work
3 its way into West New York.
4 What happens here the 12-inch loop will be
5 constructed coming off of the 24-inch, and that
6 will run along the Port Imperial Boulevard, again
7 with fire hydrants spaced, as I mentioned earlier,
8 that creates a loop system in here.
9 Again, fire hydrant stubs are shown
10 throughout, come off the 24-inch line. There is a
11 couple of -- there is an abandoned waterline here.
12 They are not servicing anything. They likely were
13 used when the railroad occupied the site. They
14 are abandoned already. They are showing up
15 because they are existing.
16 MR. KIENZ: Moving to the next
17 plate, Steve.
18 MR. WARE: Plate 161.
19 THE WITNESS: This is the very
20 north end of the project site, West New
21 York being here, again with the 24-inch
22 line coming up the Avenue of Port Imperial
23 and will run from the front of the new
24 ferry terminal and eventually tie into a
25 stub in West New York that's waiting for a
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 connection, a 24-inch stub.
2 We have another loop that comes off
3 the 24-inch main that will wrap around the
4 two buildings along Port Imperial Boulevard
5 and another loop that will wrap around this
6 building here. This is an eight-inch loop.
7 This is a six-inch loop.
8 The fire hydrants, again, are shown.
9 Existing waterlines showing up in light
10 blue will be abandoned. They are abandoned
11 and they will be removed.
12 Q Geof, what's the availability of
13 water? Is it available for this project?
14 A Yes, it is. We have had several
15 meetings with United Water, and we have discussed
16 their ability to provide the flow and the
17 pressures, and they have got plenty, and they are
18 looking forward to us putting in a connection
19 between West New York and the Lincoln Harbor area.
20 That will add a key component in the
21 regional system. It will add redundancy. It will
22 allow for less pressure drops if there is a fire.
23 There is enough pressure and flow for these types
24 of uses.
25 Q The water -- they indicated the
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 water is more than available?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Do you have correspondence on that?
4 A Yes, we do.
5 Q Anything else on this plate, Geof?
6 A No, that should do it.
7 MR. KIENZ: Next plate.
8 MR. WARE: Do you want to go
9 back to 157?
10 THE WITNESS: No, Steve. We can go
11 on to 162. I think I am done with the
12 water.
13 MR. WARE: Okay. Plate 162.
14 THE WITNESS: This will be the same
15 type of fading image, the color disappears,
16 and the proposed existing utilities for
17 this, this part of the discussion, this is
18 the electric. Electric in this area is
19 provided by PSE&G.
20 On this next group of exhibits I am
21 going to also discuss telephone and cable.
22 Telephone in this area is provided by Bell
23 Atlantic and cable by Cable Vision.
24 Q Geof, what does the pink line
25 represent? I guess it's pink. I don't know.
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1 A It's basically pink.
2 Q Lavender-pink?
3 A It's a little bit blurry. The
4 blowups will be a little more clear, but,
5 basically, the existing electric lines consist of
6 two transmission mains that run in the common
7 right-of-way and into the portal from the Baldwin
8 Avenue area.
9 Q What do you mean by "transmission
10 mains"? Is this like a big overhead line?
11 A These are 230 KVA transmission
12 lines.
13 Q I don't know what that means. What
14 does that mean?
15 A They are very large, high-voltage
16 lines, like a high-tension line but in a pipe
17 underground, and these lines carry electricity for
18 the region. They are not distribution lines, like
19 you might have on a utility pole out on the
20 street.
21 These are like -- these are like
22 transmission lines that you see on high-tension
23 wires with the big steel structures, but instead
24 of being steel structures, which are running the
25 lines, it's actually underground conduits.
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 Q Those two lines are underground, and
2 then there is electric service aboveground at the
3 present time. Is that correct?
4 A Right. You probably can't see this,
5 but there is existing electric service that comes
6 in from the Baldwin Avenue area up into the area
7 of Arthur's Landing main. They are overhead
8 utility lines up to this point, the north end of
9 the banana building, then they go underground.
10 There is a set of transformers in the area
11 where the brownstones will be coming and that
12 branches off and feeds Arthur's Landing and the
13 Jamestown ferry terminal.
14 Those overhead lines in this area, it's
15 right along the existing Port Imperial Boulevard,
16 will be like most of the other utilities, removed,
17 and those will be placed underground. In
18 conjunction with the other electric service that
19 will be built for the rest of the project.
20 Q Do you want to go to the next one?
21 THE WITNESS: Steve, we can go to
22 the next exhibit.
23 MR. WARE: That's Plate 163.
24 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
25 Q Now, once again, we are down at the
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 south end, Geof?
2 A That's correct.
3 For reference, this is the banana building,
4 and this is the Baldwin Avenue area right in here.
5 Those two pink lines that I talked about
6 that are transmission lines are shown here, and
7 they will continue up as you move to the next
8 exhibit.
9 What we are -- the other existing overhead
10 line is shown just below this proposed line here,
11 the proposed red line, which shows all the
12 proposed electric services. That will be taken
13 out. Those will be removed.
14 Then we are proposing to bring in -- PSE&G
15 is proposing to bring in underground conduits. He
16 is proposing a series of conduits depending on
17 where we are on the boulevard, but they will run
18 on the west side of the boulevard, five-inch
19 diameter conduits underground. There are either
20 going to be 11 or 14 of them depending on where we
21 are, and they will run all the way up Port
22 Imperial Boulevard.
23 There is a service connection to a building
24 here. There will be service connections to the
25 other buildings as we go along, but they are not
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 designed yet.
2 Q Geof, before we leave this slide,
3 you said you are also talking about cable
4 television and also telephone.
5 How will that work?
6 A Yes. Thank you.
7 Telephone is going -- will also parallel
8 the electric service, the proposed electric
9 service underground also. It will be on the east
10 side of Port Imperial Boulevard, however, and will
11 run on the east side of the boulevard.
12 Cable is going to be -- when the electric
13 company installs the underground conduits, the top
14 two conduits that they plan on putting in will be
15 used for the cable company, and they will run in
16 conjunction -- in the same duct bank, which is the
17 stacking of the conduits I just mentioned.
18 The top two will be used for the cable
19 company, and they have service connections coming
20 off as we go.
21 Q Michael, can you go to the next --
22 MR. WARE: Plate 164.
23 A Again for reference, this is the
24 banana building.
25 The pink lines are the transmission lines,
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 and the other pink line just underneath this red
2 line is not jumping out at us, but it's there.
3 It's overhead service up to here. Then you start
4 to see the underground service that feeds the
5 marina docks, as well as Arthur's Landing, and
6 then you see the ferry.
7 The proposed electric, again, showing up
8 running along the west side of Port Imperial
9 Boulevard with service connections into the banana
10 building, brownstone area, and the banana building
11 over here, two connections into the brownstones
12 area so far, and we are showing another connection
13 down into the Arthur's Landing Restaurant area.
14 Q Now, are you telling me, Geof, that
15 the existing lines that are shown, they will be
16 abandoned? Is that correct?
17 A That's correct. There is electric
18 service that runs out to the docks. It comes from
19 the center of the brownstones area right now.
20 That will remain here.
21 The transformers that serve this area are
22 all being relocated to an area by Arthur's
23 Landing, so the feed to the dock area will be
24 relocated.
25 Q Okay. The next plate, please.
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 MR. WARE: Plate 165.
2 THE WITNESS: Moving further north,
3 this is for reference, this is Pershing
4 Road.
5 The pink lines are existing
6 electric. The pink lines running along
7 parallel to the railroad tracks are the
8 transmission lines.
9 Then you start to see a whole series
10 of existing electric lines.
11 Q What are those, Geof?
12 A These are the underground wires that
13 provide electric service to the lights in the
14 existing parking field for the ferry terminal.
15 MR. WARE: Plate 78.
16 THE WITNESS: For instance, there
17 is a row -- there is a parking bay here,
18 and there is a series of light poles.
19 Q Geof, show the ones along the road
20 to -- just to the right of those, would you?
21 A Yes. The ferry road has a series of
22 light poles in it also.
23 Q Can we go quickly back to the other
24 plate, please?
25 MR. WARE: Plate 165.
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 A So the ones we have just looked at
2 along the road are right in this area along the
3 red dot.
4 The next set we saw, that was this row. If
5 I was back on an exhibit I can point to others.
6 It's hard to see on the photograph.
7 There is a whole series of them that runs
8 along the parking base, and they are fed by
9 transformers that are in the area like I mentioned
10 at the brownstones. There is also another set of
11 transformers that exists over by the ferry
12 terminal.
13 Q Now, will those lines continue to
14 exist or be removed?
15 A All these lines had been removed.
16 We discussed this with the power company. There
17 is nothing to salvage here, nothing that has the
18 capacity for the new development until the new
19 service comes in.
20 Q When the new service and cable
21 service is going in, they go into clusters and
22 banks, as you call them?
23 A Cable and electric will be together
24 on the east side of the Boulevard.
25 Telephone will be in a separate set of
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 conduits.
2 Q Anything else on this plate, Geof?
3 A No.
4 MR. KIENZ: Next one, Michael,
5 please.
6 MR. WARE: Plate 166.
7 A Moving further north still, this is
8 the further north end of the project, this being
9 West New York.
10 Again, the existing electric transmission
11 lines run actually under -- in through the portal
12 under the town.
13 The proposed electric again following Port
14 Imperial Boulevard will run like this and meet up
15 with a newly constructed electric at Port Imperial
16 North. All the existing electric is shown on
17 here, aside from the transmission mains that will
18 be removed.
19 Q Anything else on this plate, Geof?
20 A No.
21 MR. KIENZ: Okay. Can we go to
22 the next plate, please?
23 THE WITNESS: 162.
24 MR. WARE: 162. Okay.
25 Q Geof, just one question.
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 Is electric service available?
2 A Yes. Electric service is available.
3 We had several meetings with the power
4 company on this one. In fact, they are very
5 anxious to get this link put in.
6 They have electric service down in Lincoln
7 Harbor. They have electric service in West New
8 York, and they have a gap in their regional
9 system. They are very anxious to get this duct
10 bank put in so they can improve their whole
11 regional electric service.
12 Q How about cable and telephone?
13 A Telephone is the exact same story
14 and cable to a lesser degree, but they have the
15 exact same story also. They are looking forward
16 to closing the gap in their system.
17 Q Do you have correspondence
18 indicating this?
19 A Yes, we do.
20 That's all I have for the electric
21 services.
22 If we can go to 167.
23 MR. WARE: Plate 167.
24 THE WITNESS: This is the proposed
25 and existing gas exhibit, and we will do
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 the same thing here.
2 Q Where does the gas run?
3 A Currently it doesn't.
4 Gas comes in from the Baldwin Avenue area.
5 There is an eight-inch line that comes in along
6 Port Imperial Boulevard, the existing Boulevard,
7 and drops down below the area of Arthur's
8 Restaurant, and that's it. There is no gas along
9 this area at all.
10 The gas company, which is also PSE&G, has a
11 stub in West New York awaiting connection, and
12 what they will be doing is coming -- extending
13 this eight-inch main that exists by tapping in
14 here and continuing the eight-inch main,
15 basically, up to West New York. There will be
16 service connections that come off that, as you see
17 in the blowups.
18 THE WITNESS: We can go to 168,
19 Steve.
20 MR. WARE: Plate 168.
21 THE WITNESS: Down at the south end
22 again, there is the banana building.
23 Existing gas is shown in yellow this time,
24 and proposed gas is in orange.
25 The existing gas comes in from the
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 Baldwin Avenue area and runs as follows:
2 There are two gas stubs that run into the
3 banana building now that exist. Those
4 stubs will likely be replaced when that
5 building gets revised.
6 Then we have a proposed connection
7 to another building down at the south end.
8 Next plate.
9 MR. WARE: 169.
10 THE WITNESS: Again, the banana
11 building over here, existing, existing gas
12 in yellow.
13 MR. GOULD: Hold on a second.
14 THE WITNESS: I am sorry.
15 Thank you.
16 THE WITNESS: For reference again,
17 this is the banana building. Existing gas
18 lines are shown in yellow.
19 The gas -- eight-inch gas line runs
20 up to the area just south of Pershing and
21 drops down into the service of Arthur's
22 Landing Restaurant.
23 We are proposing new gas connections
24 coming in off of that to service the banana
25 building and to service connections to the
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 area of the brownstones.
2 Next exhibit, Steve.
3 MR. WARE: Plate 170.
4 THE WITNESS: Moving further north,
5 this is Pershing. This is Pershing Road
6 right here.
7 Existing gas ends right here, and
8 what the gas company will be doing is
9 installing an extension to that. That will
10 run, essentially, along just the west side
11 of the Port Imperial Boulevard.
12 We are showing gas feeder lines that
13 will run down between the buildings --
14 proposed buildings and then eventually will
15 have service connections designed to each
16 of the buildings, in conjunction with the
17 gas company.
18 Next plate.
19 Q The point is gas is going to be
20 available to the entire development.
21 Is that correct?
22 A Yes.
23 MR. WARE: Plate 171.
24 THE WITNESS: Here is the
25 continuation of the proposed gas line.
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 You will notice there are no
2 existing gas lines showing up in this area.
3 There are just proposed gas lines that come
4 along the Boulevard and meet up with the
5 gas line in West New York and service
6 feeder lines coming in off of that proposed
7 eight-inch line, so the gas company has a
8 similar situation that they would like to
9 --
10 MR. WARE: 167.
11 THE WITNESS: They would like to
12 close the gap between Lincoln Harbor and
13 West New York, and this project will allow
14 that to happen.
15 Q They have also indicated that gas is
16 available for the entire --
17 A Yes, they have.
18 Q -- project?
19 A Yes, they have.
20 Q Do we have a letter?
21 A Yes, we do.
22 Moving onto storm -- storm sewers.
23 MR. WARE: Plate 1.
24 THE WITNESS: These get a little
25 more interesting at least.
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 Again, an overview of the project
2 site. We have some existing, which are
3 shown in the light green.
4 Q Geof, would you kind of point them
5 out. It's a little hard with the light to
6 actually see it. We saw it better --
7 A We have existing lines. They will
8 show up much better when we go to the blowups.
9 There are some existing lines that actually
10 run to convey stormwater from the existing site,
11 primarily the parking area.
12 There is a set of head walls that
13 discharges stormwater runoff. It's piped through
14 inlets that are -- that exist inside the parking
15 area for the ferry terminal. They discharge
16 through head walls. There is a total of five of
17 them along the water's edge.
18 The bulk of them are in this area here, and
19 what we will be doing is, essentially, the same
20 type of thing.
21 The site is fairly flat, but it does
22 gradually slope towards the river. All parts of
23 the site are fairly flat, except, obviously, for
24 -- for the Palisades, and the existing -- existing
25 grades are such that water flows gently towards
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 the river. Some of it is piped in the area of the
2 parking lot, and a lot of it -- the rest of it is
3 sheet flow right to the river.
4 What we will be doing is, essentially,
5 directing water the same way. We are not going to
6 alter the drainage patterns that exist. We will
7 be capturing our runoff from our roads and our
8 roofs into inlets and discharging them through
9 short connections out to the river.
10 What we have is a series of underground
11 pipes that will have a water quality structure
12 just before they discharge into the Hudson River.
13 Q Is there -- is this an improvement
14 over the existing situation, Geof?
15 A Yes, it will be.
16 What's going to be happening, basically,
17 this large parking field is this area of non-point
18 source pollution, are going to be eliminated and
19 putting roofs in there. A big chunk of pollution
20 generator on the site will be taken out and be
21 replaced with something that doesn't generate very
22 much at all.
23 Q Let's go to the next plate. I think
24 it will be easier to see if we start at the south
25 end again.
Lanza - Direct - Kienz
1 MR. WARE: Plate 173.
2 A Those colors didn't work too well in
3 that exhibit.
4 Existing in this area -- there really
5 aren't any existing. There is a series of
6 proposed inlets. These dots are proposed inlets
7 for conveying stormwater underground out to the
8 river from the Boulevard, from proposed parking
9 areas and roof runoff when we get that also. Here
10 are out outfalls to the Hudson River.
11 Next plate.
12 MR. WARE: Plate 174.
13 A This area we will start -- this is
14 the banana building again. In this area we will
15 start to see some existing storm lines in the
16 light green, in this area here.
17 These serve -- these serve the area just
18 north of the banana building and discharge right
19 to the river, and we have coming down over in this
20 area here, it's somewhat related to stormwater in
21 that it's a combined sewer overflow.
22 Q Geof, by "this area" what are you
23 referring to?
24 A This is the area just south of
25 Pershing Road, and there is a line, it's a
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